Saturday, July 24, 2010

Shannyn Moore and AKM on the Nicole Sandler Show from Netroots Nation - TriG

hat tip to Palingates, where they're discussing this segment heatedly, and in detail, not necessarily agreeing with Shannyn and AKM.


ginny said...

My take: Shannyn and Jeanne think that "babygate" will big lumped in with the Birthers and the 9/11 Truthers, they think babygate takes legitimacy away from and hurts the cause of "outing" Palin and laying her bare for who she really is and what she is really all about, and they can't see any good reason to hurt their own reputations for a no-win battle. I think that they may privately have suspicions about the true biological parentage of Trig, but don't see pursuing these suspicions and questions as a productive line of inquiry.
That said, I wish Shannyn would ease up on the "looking down her nose" attitude when she speaks about "trig truthers". She could simply say, "to each their own" and let it be.

Philip Munger said...


I don't think Shannyn looks down her nose at TriG truthers. Rather, I believe she has been quite fair.

ginny said...

Maybe that is too strong of a phrase to use. I like Shannyn (well, as a public personality, I don't know her personally) and listen to her show. And she does tend to get a little (I'll use the word someone over a Palingates used) disdainful of opinions or perspectives that she doesn't like. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she doesn't intend for that to come out in her tone, but it does come off that way at times. You don't have to pretend to love every point of view, for sure, but it's easy to unintentionally slip into a dismissive tone at times. I'm guilty at time myself. :-)

Anonymous said...

Comparing so-called TrigTruthers to Orly Taitz and the "birthers" is unsupported, illogical, and unfair.

Candidate Obama made his certified birth certificate available online in June 2008 in response to the unwarranted, often racist, challenges to his citizenship.

The authenticity of his birth certificate was confirmed by Hawaiian state officials, including the (Republican) governor.

In addition, contemporaneous Honolulu newspaper notices announced his birth in August 1961. Also, in Jan 2009, a Hawaiian teacher shared a personal account of a conversation she had with the obstetrician who delivered Obama.

Plus, birthers’ lawsuits have been tossed out of court as frivolous and not worthy of discussion--by judges who at least looked at the birthers' evidence. And birth certificates purportedly showing Obama as Kenyan were proved to be forgeries.

So, in other words, Obama has more than adequately provided the evidence to answer any questions about his citizenship.

Compare and contrast that to Palin's behavior with regard to questions about her bizarre Trig pregnancy and birth circumstances. Has she provided evidence to support her version of events?

No! In fact, she has told many versions, some conflicting, of how events played out.

She claims to have provided Trig's birth certificate. When? To whom? She has not provided a birth certificate; in fact, she took umbrage when ADN reporter Lisa Demer pursued a story aimed at putting to rest any false claims regarding Trig's birth.

And why would CBJ need a lawyer to answer basic questions about the birth?

And why does the photo evidence of S. Palin during that time (or lack thereof of a pregnant gov) controvert her varying accounts of events?

With Palin, who is a known prevaricator and outright liar, the totality of circumstances surrounding her alleged pregnancy and birth of Trig just do NOT add up.

There is a bestselling book out right now called NO ONE WOULD LISTEN by Harry Markopolos, the Bernie Madoff whistleblower. He knew that Madoff was a fraud back in 1999, 10 years before Madoff’s Ponzi scheme collapsed. For years Markopolos tried to tell the SEC what he knew but was dismissed.

I really believe that one day there will be a comparable book about the Palin/Trig pregnancy concoction, not to mention her many other fabrications. I just hope it doesn't take 10 years.

To that end, I take issue with any and all who squelch responsible, informed, and fair research into and discussion of Palin's questionable behavior.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I'm convinced.

Palin must have had the baby because Palin's birth story is even WORSE than a fake pregnancy story.

Did I get that right? Is there a prize?

Anonymous said...

I couldn't stand any more than a quarter of that video, but even after that truncated fraction, I'm happy to be spending my summer here in Alaska as opposed to sweltering at some worthless convention in Vegas like those two misguided individuals.

Anonymous said...

Phil, thanks for posting this. I have no problem with Shannyn and Jeanne concluding that Sarah's own "wild ride" story is so damning in itself that there is no need to pursue the issue further. If so, though, it would be appreciated if they would leave it at that, rather than try to discredit those who have amassed a lot of circumstantial evidence that the birth story is a hoax. As you know, being from AK, that Bristol was pregnant in late 2007-early 2008 was an open secret. Palingates has a good summary of all the things that don't add up about Palin's story. When that many things don't add up, it is not a coincidence -- it is a hoax.

Anonymous said...

I've watched this video, I've read over at P-gates...
While I sympathize with the desire to get-rid-of-SP-once-and-for-all I don't think the so-called babygate will do it. Should something definitively prove that poor child is not SP's her solid base will forgive it- it won't be an Appalachian Trail moment.It would be further "proof" that she is wonder-mom to folks already ignoring too much about her... of the oh-look-at-that, she -would do-anything-for-her-kids variety.
It worries me that it might even appeal to some who don't agree with her politics necessarily but are sympathetic to her endless drivel about being the target of the media regarding her kids.
She's already making hay with pointing to the endless speculation as an attempt to tear her down unfairly and contrary to what so many who subscribe to the theory think, it's working for her base and expanding sympathy for her...
I think Shannyn and AKM are correct that it is more productive , in terms of shaking faith in SP, to concentrate on what SP herself has put out there...the wild-ride is considerably more upsetting to more people than any attempt to cover for a daughter is to some.
She lies all the time and so far gets away with it... that is upsetting. She uses her kids and slaps at any attempt to nail her on it... that is upsetting.
Her own story about this baby damns her judgment far more than any other...

Emma said...

In response to Anonymous 5:30.

I think the point in all of this is many of us aren't looking for the version of the story that 'hurts' Palin the worst, we just want the truth.

If the truth is she gave birth to Trig then fine, she should provide the proof and shut everyone up. And the reason she should provide the proof is because the story she has told doesn't make sense at all plus she has changed it numerous times.

And if the truth is she lied about giving birth to special needs child and then used that child to cement her right-wing pro-life credentials, well than, let's hear her 'spin' that story to her advantage and let the chips fall where they may.

The bottom-line is that there is a truth here and a very simple truth, yet Sarah Palin, a woman that some profess could actually be a candidate for the President of the United States has chosen to not provide proof to show the truth.

And that is the problem with this whole thing. Anyone who wants to put themselves front and center as being a leader of our country needs to provide accountability and credibility or nothing she says or does can be taken seriously. I am sick of politicians who think the way to 'progress' themselves is by lying. I would like to think I am not alone in saying I do not want anymore liars as President. And right now, based on the fact that Sarah Palin will not clarify or explain I think she is a big-fat liar.

Her so-called 'wild ride' story doesn't pass muster.
And I have to disagree with AKM and SM. Just the fact she is telling it and it can be used against her isn't reason to endorse it or promote it unless it is the truth!

Anonymous said...

I feel that Shannyn and AKM could have done a better job of getting their message across. You do not have to shoot down others to do that. I have read their blogs, and had been pretty impressed by AKM's power of the pen. When you are discussing a particular you have to be open to all opinions. That is where they are short sighted. There is no room for discussion with them. Before they threw up their generic assumptions they should have taken the time to read and educate themselves the messages that other blogs are trying to emulate. Instead, they chose to lump everyone with Orly, and I find that very distasteful. Everyone has something to contribute, including AKM an Shannyn. There is no conspiracy theory. The email asking for Trig's birth certificate from the State of Alaska benefits dept was the nail in the coffin. If Sarah was pregnant and went to her OB appointments, proof of her condition would have already been provided by her physicians. She would not need to provide anymore verification. Her birth of and future baby appointments would have automatically been covered.The only time benefits dept would ask for birth certificate is if you adopt, or become legal guardian to a child. Why the media failed to latch on to this is beyond me. Sarah did not go to any OB appointments, as proven by the request, therefore she did not give birth to Trig!

Anonymous said...

I enjoy the writing of both AKM and Shannyn Moore, but I do think they are both putting their careers first with regard to Babygate. As others have stated so well, they could simply say that they disagree with the "faked pregnancy" theory, without being so dismissive.

They are both looking out for their careers. They contribute to Huffington Post, where "Babygate" is verboten. Sarah Palin is a cash-cow for Arianna Huffington (and Tina Brown et al). It is absolutely in her best interest for Sarah Palin to run for President. Otherwise it is just a bunch of boring gray-haired white guys. And the possibility of a Palin-Obama showdown--oh, the amount of clicks they will get then!

As always, it is helpful to follow the money to get to the truth.

pat1755 said...

I think it's a shame that Gryphen opted, again, to vent his spleen publicly. Interblog spats just distract from the main issue, which is to reveal $P for the fraud that she is.

Kelly said...

PHIL! What The Fuck is anonymous 5:09pm from July 24 still up for? Please show some decency and respect and delete that asshole's comment.

Secondly, how many times are you going to link to a worthless, bullshit German blog like Palingates? There is a reason no other Alaska blogs link to those fucknuts. So why are you engaging them?

Thirdly, Shannyn and Jeanne don't give a shit about Sarah Palin's babygate issue. Truly, the wild ride-the ACTUAL FUCKING STORY-is stunningly irresponsible bordering on homicidal and speaks VOLUMES about Sarah Palin's lack of character and integrity.

The Trig Truthers are SERVING SARAH PALIN very well-making her out to be some sort of victim.

If Shannyn and Jeanne are not open to babygate theories it's because the people putting that out there are relentless nutbags.

akCarpetbagger said...

Seriously? Why do we give a shite about if Palin had the baby or not? What does this prove? That she lies? Really we need more proof of this?

Trig Truthers are just like 9/11 truthers - except stupider. Their is a good amount of evidence to question the official story on 9/11. Palingates story is "look at the photos" - well I could show you photos of my mom who has a similar build as Palin who had a baby at the same time in her life, well she didn't start showing until the end either (my sister was born a bit early weighing a little over 6lbs).

There is so much other stuff to go after Palin that this is just a stupid distraction.

C'mon Alaskans, use your brains and denounce, or at least ignore these Trig truther idiots.

And Phil? Wtf? I used to read your blog all the time but now to go after Shannyn and Jeanne? Really?

These two women are the reason why we don't have Palin as a President. The national media and the lower 48 had no idea what to do with Palin until they told them what she was all about.

By giving a "hat tip" to palingates you've just lost me as a reader.

Have fun making Palin look like a martyr. 'Cause that's all this trig truth bs does.

BellP. said...

I must have missed it -did this interview confirm what Dave Weigel asserted, that Shannyn Moore told him that Sarah Palin was definitely pregnant?
Did Weigel misquote Shannyn or not?

Anonymous said...

Wow, these comments are ridiculous. Shannyn and AKM are not just "protecting their careers." Sarah's official story is so much more damning than whatever some German blogger is reporting on. Phil, Jesse and the Germans are perpetuating this BS that in the end helps Palin get away with endangering her child at the best and trying to kill it at the worst. And it's the type of crap that you are never going to prove and just makes everyone fighting against Palin lose credibility. People associate AKM and Shannyn who are doing amazing work with the crazies like Jesse and the German.

Anonymous said...


No, Moore and Devon are NOT the reasons why Palin isn't president.

First, she wasn't running for president. Second, McCain's choosing Palin as his running mate was one of the fundamental reasons why that ticket didn't get elected. (George Bush and the republican party were larger reasons for that loss).

In the future, Palin will never get elected because Palin is Palin. She'll try to hide, but she can't evade the scrutiny of a national election. If she's nominated, she'll lose. Moore and Devon will be irrelevant-- Palin will articulate her own demise and she won't need any help.

Philip Munger said...

anon @ 12:30 p.m: I'm agnostic on this issue. I lean toward Palin having tried to kill TriG through stress, rather than the faked pregnancy.

Until I see a birth certificate for him, though, the "birthers" deserve an airing of a story that just can't go away.

Anonymous said...

Well said , Phil. I have followed this story from the beginning...I have three college degrees so I am not an uneducated dolt. My reading leads me to believe totally that Trig is not Sarah's biological son. I would say some of the above comments came straight from C4P. They are worried. These blogs are inching closer and closer to the truth and they know it.

This "Kelly" person seems overly angry for some reason.

Thanks for keeping an open mind.

Anonymous said...


What the FUCK, MAN!!!

Please delete the assholio comment above from Anonymous at 5:09pm!!!

Show some respect for one of your colleagues.

Trigiscute said...

Even Daily News Executive Editor, Patrick Dougherty, understands that without the release of proper documentation that rumors regarding Palin's pregnancy will persist. Is he a fucknut too?

"It strikes me that if there is never a clear, contemporaneous public record of what transpired with Trig's birth, that may actually ensure that the conspiracy theory never dies. Time will tell."

Pat Dougherty only wanted to help dispell the rumors but couldn't do so because the Palin's wouldn't coperate with Lisa Demer's questions.

So why then should Andrew Sullivan, Palingates, Immoral Minority, Progressive Alaska and others take the heat from Kelly for Sarah Palin's lack of transparency? They just want answers and preferably the truth.

If Kelly thinks that the wild ride is the "actual fucking story" then why doesn't he get Shannyn or AKM to write about it, including the fact that Shannyn told David Weigel that Palin was definitely pregnant.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Phil,

For not fearing to allow all sides of a discussion to take place, and encouraging thoughts that others might deem "tin foil hat".

There are those who are so impressed with themselves that they feel above the idea of even considering that a story is worthy of discussion, and choose instead to bury their heads in the sand and flail about, lashing out at those who disagree with them, sorta like Sarah Palin does.

I appreciate that you are at least open and willing to see a discussion take place. That is the hallmark of a true journalist, and not simply one looking to make a name for him/her self.

Anonymous said...

Anger much?
"Secondly, how many times are you going to link to a worthless, bullshit German blog like Palingates? There is a reason no other Alaska blogs link to those fucknuts. So why are you engaging them?"
Really? Why don't you tell us Why?
Palingates has never said anything against the AK bloggers! What is there not enough Palin scandals to go around?
WTF is your problem?
And I also would like to hear Shannyn explain Dave Weigel's remark.
Whatever Ms. Moore & AKM think about PG they threw their friend Gryphen under the bus.
Real classy.
They will never be more than two snarky women from Alaska.

Celia Harrison said...

I have a lot of respect for the Alaskan bloggers who had the guts to discuss the wild ride/tigtruther story from the beginning, such as Jesse Griffen . Clearly the official story is not true. Using logic the only conclusion I can come to is Palin was not pregnant, but I am willing to discuss pregorexia and deliberate actions to induce a miscarriage. It is very odd for an anorexic woman to not have at least a small baby bump however and they generally don't wear tight clothing. I have no idea who the real mother is, but it seems there are two babies involved.

I also read Palingates and do link to them. Everyone has a right to their own say. Palin is a threat to our country and as we have seen any time an imcompetent idiot is in the presidency the world is affected in a negative way. The German people are hypervigilant to this. One thing people may not understand about the German culture is they are very detail oriented and can be blunt. Many Americans can be offended by this, but I love it.