Monday, November 9, 2009

First the Bad News - Then the Worse News and Then the Worst

Possibly the most prescient immediate reaction to the tragedy last week was that by Josh Marshal, at Talking Points Memo. His headline read:

This is Going to Get Very Dark


The bad news is fairly evident. Maj. Hasan survived his hate crime. Monday's right-wing AM radio talk shows had callers hoping for him to be tortured. A web site called Blog for Victory - I'm not going to link - had a comment:

We need to get right down to the bottom of this – and, liberals, if the stories of accomplices in custody are true, this is where harsh interrogation might be needed: whoever was involved in this most emphatically does not have a right to remain silent.


We'll see a lot more like this.

Muslims all over the country are condemning Maj. Hasan's crimes. Let's see how things are going today in some other religious communities:

1. The Westboro Baptist Church plans on showing up outside of Ft. Hood during this week's memorial service to spew their usual hatred toward our military.

Donations to the Westboro Baptist Church are tax deductible.

2. The Christian American Family Association, with a network of about 200 radio stations, is calling for the prohibition of Muslims from the U.S. Military:

[T]he more devout a Muslim is, the more of a threat he is to national security. Devout Muslims, who acceptthe teachings of the Prophet as divinely inspired, believe it is their duty to kill infidels....

Of course, most U.S. Muslims don't shoot up their fellow soldiers. Fine. As soon as Muslims give us a foolproof way to identify their jihadis from their moderates, we'll go back to allowing them to serve. You tell us who the ones are that we have to worry about, prove you're right, and Muslims can once again serve. Until that day comes, we simply cannot afford the risk. You invent a jihadi-detector that works every time it's used, and we'll welcome you back with open arms.

This is not Islamophobia, it is Islamo-realism....

And just as Christians are taught to imitate the life of Christ, so Muslims are taught to imitate the Prophet in all things. Yesterday, Nidal Malik Hasan was simply being a good Muslim.

Donations to the Christian American Family Association are tax deductible.

3. In Israel today, and in the U.S, it was noted in the press that another figure - you can get a tax deduction if you donate to his American-based supporters (Sen. Joe Lieberman has donated to more than one of the many organizations that materially support this gentleman) - wrote this:

In any situation in which a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives, the non-Jew may be killed even if he is a righteous Gentile and not at all guilty for the situation that has been created…

When a non-Jew assists a murderer of Jews and causes the death of one, he may be killed, and in any case where a non-Jew’s presence causes danger to Jews, the non-Jew may be killed…

The [Din Rodef] dispensation applies even when the pursuer is not threatening to kill directly, but only indirectly…

Even a civilian who assists combat fighters is considered a pursuer and may be killed.

Anyone who assists the army of the wicked in any way is strengthening murderers and is considered a pursuer.

A civilian who encourages the war gives the king and his soldiers the strength to continue. Therefore, any citizen of the state that opposes us who encourages the combat soldiers or expresses satisfaction over their actions is considered a pursuer and may be killed.

Also, anyone who weakens our own state by word or similar action is considered a pursuer…

Hindrances—babies are found many times in this situation. They block the way to rescue by their presence and do so completely by force. Nevertheless, they may be killed because their presence aids murder. There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”…

In a chapter entitled “Deliberate harm to innocents,” the book explains that war is directled mainly against the pursuers, but those who belong to the enemy nation are also considered the enemy because they are assisting murderers.

4. Fortunately, if you support any of the organizations overseas that provide material support for what Maj. Hassan has been alleged to have done - commit a heinous hate crime, you will be prosecuted for it.

It is time to end tax exemptions for all religious activities, and to end government support for so-called "faith-based initiatives" and partnerships.

27 comments:

Durruti said...

How telling that, yet again, a progressive blogger finds that the only religious element to the Jihadist murder at Fort Hood involves Christians and Jews. In yet another anti-Christian and anti-Jewish cry from the heart the author mentions Islam or muslims only once..

"Muslims all over the country are condemning Maj. Hasan's crimes."

And that's it. The author assumes that's all his readers need to know about Islam's role in the shootings. Muslims around the country condemn the shootings...end of story....end of discussion. Inquiring minds need not be troubled by looking into the tenets of Islam that spurred Major Hassan on to slaughter infidels. No, discussion of Islam's thoughts on infidels and the fate they deserve should never sully the Leftist thought process.

Islamic extremism is anti-Western, anti-Jewish and anti-Christian ...how can a Leftist in America today condemn such an ally ? Well, judging from the hastily thrown together piece written by Mr.Munger, the answer is that they can't . Islam will not be criticized by the Left. The Political Correctness that led to Army Officers not taking action over Major Hassan's public support for islamic terrorism will not be criticized by the Left.

As with all islamic terrorism the Left twist themselves into knots to blame us and not those who commit the crime. In the minds of Mr. Munger and those who are in lock-step with his Leftist groupthink, the fear is never when will another muslim decide that violent Jihad is his religious obligation but rather that people will indulge in criticism of muslims after the event.
The murder of Americans is one thing (just one of those things that happen from time to time - nothing to get worried about) but any backlash against islam or muslims is a heinous crime that must be punished by the full weight of Leftist media hysteria and, of course, the law.

For Mr.Munger every Jihadist outrage is an excuse to indulge in more Christian and Jew baiting. Thankfully the American public can see through the hypocrisy.

Durruti said...

In my haste to pen the above comment, I forgot , of course, that Mr, Munger's locale is currently racked by numerous vile acts of both Jewish and Christian extremism (at least according to him). For all those mourning loved ones lost to Jewish and Christian fundamentalist suicide bombers in Alaska or recovering from witnessing another act of mindless Methodist or Baptist terrorism in the territory, I offer sincere apologies.

alaskapi said...

Phil-
I agree that it is time to roll back or eliminate tax exemptions for ALL religious activities.
The interjection of religion into our public business- politics- is real and it's time to quit pretending it isn't.

Durruti-
The chip on your shoulder ?
Why are you falling into mere snark at Mr Munger...?
I'm afraid you are damaging THIS American's heretofore fairly solid support of Israel rather seriously...
I come here to see what Mr Munger and other folks who think somewhat differently than I think have to say on the subject...

IF the remarks left by you and some anonys lately are a fair representation of overall American Jewish thought I'm going to have to rethink a lot of things.

It has been my experience that most cultural groups of people have multiple voices but you are starting to worry me...
Who are you the voice for?

Durruti said...

What makes you assume I'm Jewish ?
Is it because I refuse to go along with the Leftist whitewashing of Islam that Mr. Munger is attempting.
If the mere fact of my commenting on this blog is going to make you rethink your "solid support of Israel"then it's pretty obvious that you're support isn't that solid.

I notice that nowhere in the previous threads, as Mr.Munger has continually run defense for islam by attempting to shift the focus of the Fort Hood massacre on to Jews and Christians, have you once questioned Mr.Munger's writings.
And yet , as a "solid supporter of Israel" you feel you must attack me
for daring to point out the huge problm the Left has with islam.

In reply then, I ask you ...what is the chip on your shoulder ? Who are YOU the voice of ?

alaskapi said...

I'm not assuming you are Jewish, Durruti.
I'm asking if you are the voice of American Jewish thought...
Since you apparently have a set of measures about what constitutes support -solid or not- of Israel that is based on counting comments or toting up numbers somewhere or some such thing... well, I don't have anything to say to that... just like I don't have anything to say to Mr Munger on a variety of things...

Is it Durruti-the militant anti-fascist and/ or anarchist for whom you have named yourself?

Durruti said...

"A civilian who encourages the war gives the king and his soldiers the strength to continue. "

So, an ultra-Orthodox Rabbi quoting from ancient Jewish scriptures in Israel is of significant importance
to an Alaskan blogger but millions of Korans in American mosques that contain the words

"The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

are not worthy of comment. Likewise the fact that Mr.Munger's beloved Palestinians in Gaza elected a government whose spokesman says...

"The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

And that American tax dollars are going to Gaza bothers the Left not one iota. I wonder why ?

Durruti said...

"IF the remarks left by you and some anonys lately are a fair representation of overall American Jewish thought I'm going to have to rethink a lot of things."

Hmm, sounds like you thought I was Jewish to me. Why would you assume I was the voice of American Jewish thought ? Do you assume that Mr. Munger is the voice of American islamic support because of his continual defense of islam on this site ?

alaskapi said...

You can assume whatever you want Durruti...

And I read Mr Munger very differently than you...
So- enough.
Impasses are impasses...

RoseMontague said...

Philip said: "The bad news is fairly evident. Maj. Hasan survived his hate crime."

No need to jump to a conclusion that this is a hate crime, nor is there a need to conclude it is an act of terrorism. I am glad this man was stopped before he could kill any more people, but I do not wish for his death nor would I rejoice if he had died. We just don't know at this point what may have motivated this horrid act of violence. Look to the light Philip, the dark is creeping in here as well.

Philip Munger said...

RoseMontague,

You are right, but the odds of this being judged anything less than a hate crime are very remote.

Wolfe Tone said...

I'm still waiting for the "liberal media" to go nuts over the "lone domestic terrorist" (former Bethel, AK resident Christopher Monfort) in Seattle.

Oh. wait.

He only killed one cop, and was stopped before he could commit mass mayhem by detonating any of his home-made bombs.

And he wasn't a Muslim, so no news there.

Makabit Bat Guriel said...

alaskapi wrote;

"IF the remarks left by you and some anonys lately are a fair representation of overall American Jewish thought I'm going to have to rethink a lot of things."

you never thought any different so why try to make it seem otherwise?

personally, clowns like you and Phil haven't fooled a number of us.
it's the ones you fool that will sit and scratch their heads if and when the shit hits the fan and I do believe it's coming.

Yusef Asabiyah said...

"it's the ones you fool that will sit and scratch their heads if and when the shit hits the fan and I do believe it's coming."

I'm not convinced I've been fooled by anyone but I am scratching my head wondering what you are talking about. What are you talking about?

Are you trying to say that if muslims aren't excluded from US military service and murdered whenever someone Jewish feels threatened in their presence, shit will hit the fan in consequence?

Durruti said...

"Are you trying to say that if muslims aren't excluded from US military service and murdered whenever someone Jewish feels threatened in their presence,"

What are YOU talking about? Who here is talking about murdering muslims ? What people are worried about is that islamo-fascist jihadists are present in our military but, because of Political Correctness, no-one is exposing them. Islamic extremism and being a member of the US Armed Services do not mix as Fort Hood shows.

Yusef Asabiyah said...

"Islamic extremism and being a member of the US Armed Services do not mix as Fort Hood shows."

As of yet there is no evidence Major Hasan is an Islamic extremist or that his actions at Fort Hood were motivated by his religion or ethnicity.

You are just jumping to conclusions. Dark, dangerous, evil conclusions. The sorts of dark, dangerous, evil conclusions which in the past have led to grave injustice.

Durruti said...

"As of yet there is no evidence Major Hasan is an Islamic extremist or that his actions at Fort Hood were motivated by his religion or ethnicity."

One, no-one has even mentioned Hassan's ethnicity so why bring it up ? (unless, of course, it's so you can cry "racism" )

Two, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that Hassan is an islamic extremist and that his religion had everything to do with his actions. Screaming Allah Akbar (God is great) as he slaughtered his unarmed victims is just one of the giveaways.

Are you disputing that islamic extremism and service in the US Military don't mix ?

alaskapi said...

Makabit-
LOL.
At whatever level I feel badly about letting fly ( pretty mildly ) in irritation , being accused by you of trying to fool anyone made my day.
My personal and therefore anecdotal experience with American Jewish thought is small ...
My stepmother of 35 years, long involved in Israeli causes ,first to stay in touch with her rabbi uncle who emigrated there after nationhood, later to assist the vision of what Israel COULD be.
The old guy I've worked with for years , who came from the east coast, whose family shipped arms there ...
A dear friend long involved in projects in Israel to foster peace with the Palestinians .
Two are religious Jews, one is not...
Small non-scientific sample ... but people I respect and admire and whose overall positive views of Israel have largely shaped my own...

You go ahead and think whatever it is that floats your boat .

Yusef A @12;27-
VERY well said.
I agree.

And , I still agree with the premise of this post... that those who attempt to influence politics- public business- should not be allowed to claim religious non-profit status .

Philip Munger said...

alaskapi,

Religion, especially fundamentalist varieties, do almost as much damage to true spirituality, as does evil itself.

alaskapi said...

Phil-
I have never settled for myself what spirituality could be said to be but I think religion ,especially fundamentalist varities ( ALL of them), do enormous damage to our human community far too often.
I tend to find a fair amount of sense in Plato's poetics... in trying to come to grips with the interplay between the ideal and the mundane.
I have been thinking of the Allegory of the Caves through this whole thread...

Yusef Asabiyah said...

"Two, there is OVERWHELMING evidence that Hassan is an islamic extremist and that his religion had everything to do with his actions. Screaming Allah Akbar (God is great) as he slaughtered his unarmed victims is just one of the giveaways.

Are you disputing that islamic extremism and service in the US Military don't mix?"

I would like to assume you aren't anti-American so much as ignorant of America, especially American systems of judicial process, but I also don't think a person of such phenomenal ignorance of US law can be pro-American, either.

I know you perverts get your rocks off by forming a mob and then heading off to lynch someone or other who may very well turn out later to be innocent. You've been doing that since the dawn of time, and I doubt we'll ever stop you entirely.

Just don't give me this goddamned bullshit that you're acting as a patriot. What you are doing is rubbing the US Constitution in the dirt and destroying everything good America tried to be about.

Durruti said...

"I know you perverts get your rocks off by forming a mob and then heading off to lynch someone or other who may very well turn out later to be innocent."

As opposed to you pro-islamist "perverts" who think that a jihadist slaughtering US troops on their own soil is something that should be hushed up or blamed on the supposed "islamophobia" poor little defenseless
Major Hassan had to endure.

Your obvious hysteria at being caught in a lie shows when you start ranting "Just don't give me this goddamned bullshit that you're acting as a patriot."

Take a deep breath, reread this entire thread and point out the exact line when I claimed to be acting as a patriot.

As for your inability to answer my simple question of whether you thought that Islamist extremism and service in the US Military are compatible, I am still waiting for an answer.

Your failure to respond to such a simple question is rather telling, your resorting to mindless abuse is even more telling.

Durruti said...

"Small non-scientific sample ... but people I respect and admire and whose overall positive views of Israel have largely shaped my own..."

And yet, strangely, you were prepared to have your "positive" views of Israel changed just by reading my non-Jewish thoughts on Mr. Monger's attempt to deflect criticism of Islamic Jihad onto his old bete-noir of Israel.

Interestingly, the latest hate crime figures available in the US show attacks against muslims to be tiny and going down compared with hate crime attacks against Jews, which are rising steadily. One wonders if the constant drumbeat of hate against Israel found in Leftist blogs, universities and media is contributing to these hate crimes ? One can only wonder at the motives of those who would use a Jihadist terror attack against American troops as a club with which to attack Israel. And, sadly, it seems the majority of this site's readers are happy to go along for the ride.

Philip Munger said...

Durruti,

Spell my name wrong again and you will be banned from my blog.

It is a proud American name, and has been for over 375 years.

Yusef Asabiyah said...

"As for your inability to answer my simple question of whether you thought that Islamist extremism and service in the US Military are compatible, I am still waiting for an answer."

The question isn't answered because it is not worth answering.

The serious issue is that people like you, cowards and idiots, judge Hasan a jihadist and Islamist extremist without sufficient evidence that this is the case.

Major Hasan was an American, an officer in the military, a psychiatrist, and as far as I know had no previous history of crime or violence or association with terrorist organizations. At the present time, it is wrong to think Major Hasan is a jihadist or an Islamic extremist even if later we do find out he has these ties, which might happen.

But what you are doing is much worse than that. You go from judging Hasan a terrorist to declaring our military riddled with terrorists, and onward to demanding repressive and unlawful measures against whole groups of American citizens.

Durruti said...

"The question isn't answered because it is not worth answering."

Or, more to the point, because you refuse to answer it.

"The serious issue is that people like you, cowards and idiots, judge Hasan a jihadist and Islamist extremist without sufficient evidence that this is the case."

Judging by the amount of abuse you're throwing around, you seem extremely defensive about Major. Hassan...I wonder why. As for your ludicrous claim that there is no evidence to link Hassan to Islamic fundamentalism, I can only presume that you haven't had access to any news for the last three or four days. Even the liberal media are now forced to admit Hassan's connections to extremist Islam....how much longer can you stay in denial ?

"Major Hasan was an American,"

But strangely Hassan claimed he was Palestinian..go figure.

"But what you are doing is much worse than that. You go from judging Hasan a terrorist to declaring our military riddled with terrorists,"

Again, you seem to have some difficulty reading plain English..please point out where I have stated that the "military is riddled with terrorists". It's hard to have a debate with someone who keeps inventing statements that I didn't say.

"and onward to demanding repressive and unlawful measures against whole groups of American citizens."

You seem to be having this debate with a figment of your imagination..please point out where I "demanded repressive and unlawful measures" against anyone. In your obvious haste to defend the islamic terrorist Hassan, you seem to be indulging in a bad case of projection. Once you've caught up with the news perhaps you can try and tell us why you think Islamic extremists are a good fit for the US Army.

As for your laughable use of the word "coward" to describe those who have identified Hassan as a terrorist, it would seem more appropriate that you use that word to describe Maj.Hassan. This man , after all, shot dead 13 UNARMED people while screaming "Allah Akbar". The people he shot were those he was supposedly in the military to help. It's very , very telling that you offer no condemnation for the gutless creep who planned the killing of men and women in his care but, instead, spew your abuse at those who correctly identified his religious fundamentalism. Why so defensive ??

Yusef Asabiyah said...

I will let you find someone else to jerk off with. I believe I have wasted my time with you here before when you've posted as anonymous.

What you are doing isn't so clever as you think, and it's much more transparent to many more people than you may realize. There are very good reasons not to pull these tricks, especially when the subject of discussion is as serious as this.

Durruti said...

Yusef, you may find it a pleasure to jerk off while reading this blog but not all of us share your predisposition to indulge ourselves in this manner whilst blogging. However, if it floats your boat then by all means carry on, unless, of course, you do you blogging at an internet cafe.

As for the rest of your post, I really have no idea what you are trying to say. If my comments are so "transparent" then why don't you enlighten us all as to what I'm trying to do. Meanwhile, your singular inability to disprove the fact that Hassan was indeed an islamic extremist committing Jihad shows that you should spend less time pleasuring yourself and more time reading the news. Today's latest installment is that Hassan had business cards printed up with the slogan "Soldier of Allah " printed on them....but you're probably right this obviously had nothing to do with religious extremism...Ha ! Ha ! Ha !

But seriously , this discussion is serious and your desperate attempts to separate Hassan from Islamist religious extremism raises some very serious questions about why some would defend a violent Jihad.