Sunday, November 6, 2011

An Open Letter to Jesse Griffin at the Immoral Minority - Updated

Obama and me, in better days
Dear Jesse,

From time to time, I poke my head up at one of your intensely pro-Obama posts at the Immoral Minority, to criticize what I regard as dangerously unrealistic support of our current president.  Usually, though not always, I get lambasted there, with responders to my comments seldom actually addressing issues that I've brought up.  A few of the commenters have even gone so far as to accuse me of attacking you, or to warn you that you might be in physical danger from me.

Both of these accusations are absurd.  As I've stated, I'm only trying to help you get over your addiction.

I.  A good way to break the habit might be to write a post supporting those of us who are vehemently against what is increasingly appearing to be open support by the Obama administration of the Keystone XL shale oil pipeline.

As you should know, the State Department stacked the environmental impact statement process with Koch Brothers supporters.   Last week, your hero, President Obama, announced that the final decision on this project is his:

You get that, Jesse:
1). The largest civil disobedience action in recent U.S. history was right outside your BFF's residence. Over 1,000 arrested.

2). Obama fixed the environmental impact statement on behalf of the Koch Brothers.

3). Obama is obviously going to approve this fucking environmental disaster.

4). Hundreds - or thousands - of my friends are right now, as I write, surrounding your BFF's dwelling. Many more may get arrested as part of this important act of citizen outrage:

II. Another good way to break the habit might be to address this:  During the past few years, CIA drones, as part of Obama's greatly increased automated killing machine, have murdered almost as many Pakistani civilians as Americans died in the World Trade Center disasters:
Tariq and Waheed’s death brought the total number of children killed in drone strikes to 175, according to the Bureau’s own findings. As part of an ongoing investigation, the Bureau has documented 306 strikes from remotely piloted drones that have killed between 2,359 and 2,959 people.
Over 85% of them have been launched by the administration of President Barack Obama.
Along with the president's entirely unprecedented policy of now killing American teenagers abroad with no attempt at any form of justice, we have here, Jesse, problems that go to the core of what it is to be American, let alone a true American progressive.  You have almost entirely failed to address them, as you adulate the man behind these incredibly stupid policies.
Judy and Phil with Howard Dean, the guy who got Obama elected, just before Obama ditched him

III.  Today, you wrote:
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, could have done more for this country against the unprecedented blowback that has been coming his way since day one from the Republicans than Obama has done. Not Hillary, not Bill, not anybody!

From the second that he was elected, the Republicans have done NOTHING except work against every single policy decision that he has tried to implement.  If he were not such a  determined and gifted leader, he would never have managed to be as successful as he has been, despite the roadblocks, disinformation, and outright sabotage he has been forced to deal with during these last three years.

If we really want to see this President "be all that he can be," we need to not ONLY give him four more years, we need to send as many REAL Democrats to Washington as we can possibly dig up. 

Last week, addressing your misperception of what the White House energy policy really is, you wrote:
And that my friends is the difference between having a comprehensive energy policy, and just coming up with bumper sticker slogans like "Drill Baby, Drill."
I think you fatally underestimate how serious the climate situation really is, worldwide.  How else could you continue to ignore the Keystone XL issue, or ignore, when making a claim that Obama has a so-called "energy policy," the egregious misconduct it represents:
1).  Letting BP get away with environmental murder in the Gulf of Mexico.
2).  Harassing honest climate scientists in Alaska.
3).  Issuing drilling permits offshore, in Alaska waters that cannot be cleaned up ten months out of the year.
4).  Loosening EPA health regulations in a number of areas that lead to earlier deaths for tens of thousands or more.
IV.  I challenge you, my friend to join us in open support of the demonstrations outside the White House, against this so-called "energy policy" you tout as so fucking wonderful.

A good start to ending your unhealthy addiction, might be to write a post, urging people to sign this petition to the president.

Trusting in your studied, timely response, and with warm regard,

Phil Munger
Progressive Alaska


Update: From today's demonstration in front of the White House:




Anonymous said...

I found this post via Jesse's blogroll. You might at least thank him for the traffic you are obviously enjoying.

Philip Munger said...

Thanks, Jesse, for some of the traffic this blog gets.

anon @ 4:01 - you might consider helping getting Jesse to come around on these progressive issues. Eh?

Anonymous said...

Phil Munger, you need professional help for your passive aggressive behavior. You are truly disgusting in your utter arrogance to call Jesse out the way that you are doing. HE is entitled to his opinions and points of view, as are you, but when he puts you on his blogroll and you shit on him this way, it's vile and in the worst of manners. Why would you goad and attack the way you if only to feed your own ego? To piss on a friend? Disgusting. As far as I'm concerned, he is the better man, the man with more integrity and honor than you will ever be or have. As far as I'm concerned you are nothing better than a school yard bully. You don't get the attention to your blog that Jesse gets to his and you pull this kind of crap like a 2 year old. Just despicable. You aren't the boss of Jesse, Jesse is quite capable of thinking for himself with NO help from you. That you would think your approach is acceptable, it isn't.

Philip Munger said...

anon @ 4:18,

So you do not feel that the issues I am trying to help Jesse work through are valid? Why not?

Your comment is illustrative of how often defenders of Jesse's stance on this not only refuse to take up the matters I'm honestly trying to help him with, but themselves hide from the rather evident truth about Obama and his wars, and Obama and his "energy policy," for instance.

I take mild offense at your characterization of this post as "passive aggressive," "vile," "piss[ing] on a friend." (my wife and I, my kids and I, many of my best friends, get into discussions and arguments far beyond what I've written here - and learn and grow from them).

I don't envy any blog in Alaska that has "attention" as you describe. Really.

Anonymous said...

Exactly WHAT PURPOSE is posting an open letter to Jesse when this issue is obviously YOURS not his?

What do expect to gain by this stunt? Pretty sad that you can ONLY find attention through Jesse, since he is the one that people gravitate to, enjoy reading and return to over and over again, as opposed to this blog, obviously. So instead of going to Jesse's blog and posting your filth, you use Jesse's name to drive traffic to your sorry ass blog. What a loser approach.

You can't stand on your own two feet, so you have to get on Jesse's back. Do you have a little dick too? I expect you do, since this is exactly the sort of thing that you would get from someone who struggles with their self esteem. You think it's clever, but it isn't. It's a sad old man who can't stand that the young, viral Jesse can run circles around you, has all the attention and speaks his heart and mind, to the delight of his readers. You can't stand that, can you? You are just so envious of the commitment people have to Jesse and his writings.

I have often thought that you and Sarah Palin share a lot of common behavior. I'm even more convinced with this cheap stunt.

Philip Munger said...

anon @ 4:29,

So you also feel the issues I am raising are unimportant? Why?

Anonymous said...

So you dislike President Obama so much you'll vote for one of the republicans? That would be really smart now wouldn't it? I don't agree with some of the things that the president has done, but he's the best hope we have. I am one of Jessie's fans too and find your comments very insulting. He is entitled to his opinion and doesn't have to follow in lockstep with you or any other firebagger.

Sue in Kansas

Anonymous said...

Any value that this blog post may have had is invalidated due to your approach. You could have simply posted what you feel necessary to post, without personalizing it. By personalizing it, you completely muddied the message and made it completely unpalatable, even if someone was interested in learning more. You simply poisoned it.

It becomes a rather nasty, arrogant, know it all stance that leaves no opening for what you may have wanted to convey.

You wasted your time by trying to get back at Jesse and all you ended up doing it looking like a jerk.

This is a grandstanding, egotistical attack that has NOTHING to do with promoting 'progressive' venues. Who do you think you're kidding? This is Phil REGRESSIVELY looking for blog traffic that he can't get without Jesse's name attached to it. Which makes you rather pathetic, dishonest and manipulative.

Maybe there's a 12 step program for that since you seem to be so familiar with the term 'addiction'.

I pity your wife, and your children having to live with the likes of you. You STRETCH the definition of 'friend' to it's limits. I truly don't know how Jesse can stomach you. I'll be very happy to see you disappear from his blogroll and then you will have to make it on your own. No more piggybacking on Jesse's good name. Bravo.

Whoa, Baby! said...

"So you do not feel that the issues I am trying to help Jesse work through are valid? "

Could you be more arrogant? Why are you inserting yourself into his life? Why do you think he needs help working through issues? Perhaps you are the one who needs help working through issues. You have your beliefs; he has his. You need to get over yourself and maybe learn a bit of tolerance and humility.

Anonymous said...

Good lord, what's with all the sniping in the comment's section? Phil's got a point of view that's complete opposite of Jesse's in regard to Obama's fulfillment of his campaign pledges, and he aired it out. I didn't see anything that should get anyone's panties in a wad.

We've got to stop attacking personalities and start concentrating on the issues. Did Phil write anything that was incorrect? Do you dispute the facts he presented?

President Obama has been put in a tough spot by the Republicans, but he's doing a hell of a job anyway, and it's great that he has loyal compatriots like Jesse watching his back.

At the same time, Obama has seemed to engage in politics and policies that come right out of the Republican Corporate Welfare Playbook, much to the chagrin of the Progressives who supported him with their votes in 2008. If you find their discontent confusing, then you're not paying attention to the facts on the ground, and you're approaching these arguments without the benefit of logic and reason.

Lastly to both Phil and Jesse: please show great care in attacking the issues and not each other. I'm not saying that's what happened in this instance, but notice the sensitivity to any perceived negativity by your readers. We don't need any more negativity in this world, we need positivity. Hell, look what being negative all the time accomplished for that Queen of Negativity, Sarah Palin. It exposed her for the empty-headed fool that she is, and now the entire country has a negative view of her. Please don't do that.

conscious at last said...

...and you Phil are helping to create a more peaceful, compassionate and healthy world with this post...

.. or are you?

What is your goal in writing such a post?

How does this post further the agenda of blocking the pipeline?

What were you REALLY trying to do here?

Philip Munger said...

"How does this post further the agenda of blocking the pipeline?"

--- too early to tell if it will help enlist Jesse in this battle.

anon @ 5:10

--- again - I am not attacking Jesse. We have more lively discussions around our dinner table than this. Often. I don't get it where people view open criticism of a fetish to be unhealthy.

Blind Assumptions said...

Jesse's getting paid to post, eh?

Anonymous said...

Mr. Munger,

Like other commenters here, I'm taken aback by the level of vitriol you've spewed at Jesse Griffin--and, by the way, at the duly elected President of our country (and by implication, the readers of your blog).

So, you have far more heated discussions than this with family and friends? And you've "learned" and "grown" as a result of these soul-searching exchanges? Well, aren't you special. I'll let you in on a little secret: Believe it or not, many, many people have been sorting through a lot of serious issues over the past few years, it's not been fun and games, and it's been a clarifying experience. I guess, though, they lack the depth of your sensitivity and profundity. Right?

So, you're prepared to show Jesse the way, the truth, and the light toward becoming a "real" progressive? You insult not only Jesse but also your readers with this self-righteous, pompous drivel. You come across as a mean-spirited, angry man who himself needs help working through some deep-seated conflicts, and who, incidentally, gives true progressives a bad name.

Ironically, this post has had a positive outcome for me: I've finally decided, after three long years, to disengage entirely from the "Alaska blogs." I've had enough of you, Jeanne Devin, Shannyn Moore, and, yes, Jesse Griffen. You all share too many traits with Sarah Palin for my taste. I'll thank you to keep your tribal rivalries and penchant for waging blog wars to yourselves. I'm one reader from Outside who's no longer interested in Alaska's dirty laundry, which has already inflicted significant damage on our national discourse.

Anonymous said...

I agree with 5:10, but 5:02 does have a point.

4:29, really? You are so out of line.

Anonymous said...

Citizens United has changed everything. In order to move us closer to the middle, we need 2 more moderate or liberal justices. Obama is leading in this new environment and if you are naive enough to believe that he'll hold onto his job by going full-tilt left, then you are an unrealistic idealist. If you cannot see that he's playing chess and you're playing checkers, then keep on resisting and maybe sit out '12 like you and others like you did '10. We'll have you to thank when the reich wing finally takes it all and outsources our beautiful land to the biggest contributors. Like Bush, only much more stout. As I said, Citizens United changed everything. A second term would help Obama and the progressive movement leave an FDR style legacy. Get on board or get off the boat.

Jo said...

I think that you nailed it Anonymous@3:05am.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that Jesse continues to post positive articles about the President. The attacks that so-called 'Progressives' are mounting against Mr. Obama are doing nothing to help but everything to hurt his chances of being re-elected.

If it is your intention to, once again, make the U.S. the laughing stock of the world by electing one of the candidates from the current crop of GOP clowns then, by all means, continue the assault against the man who has garnered the respect & admiration from other nations that was lost during the GWB debacle.

If, however, you want the country to 'progress' and not 'regress' as it surely would under a Republican President, it's time to put aside your hurt feelings and forget dwelling on what the President hasn't done to meet your expectations and give your support to the man who, with a Democratic majority, provides the best hope to implement your agenda.

mistah charley, ph.d. said...

Phil, I'm not surprised that someone in this thread has called you the dirty word aimed at me when I questioned some of Obama's actions. Clearly you too have committed the thoughtcrime of comparing Obama's actions to the values America should stand for - yes, you are that despicable kind of human being, one whose independence of thought leads to being what is now called a FIREBAGGER.

Anonymous said...

Yes, all you needed to do was state your opinions and not drag IM into it. I believe Jesse will probably just ignore you, so all you've accomplished is increased traffic (being that I have never been interested in visiting your site before), which is likely what you had intended in the first place.

There is a big difference between longstanding American policy (which, yes, needs changing in many areas) and one President's ability to affect it. We all agree President Obama has pretty much had his hands tied by the GOP, but in light of that he has done what he could do at this point in time - and probably averted far worse than we could have imagined economically. Everyone likes to pretend that isn't so and wants to bring down the banks instead (we are truly screwed if that ever happens, like it or not).

I think it's great that we have a pure progressive movement and voice in this country, and I think President Obama is also happy about it. BUT, if the efforts lead to the horrific unintended consequence of allowing the GOP to get back into the White House - remember there's a Supreme Court just waiting to be stacked further to the right - then you all will have become a much greater problem and definitely not part of any solution.

Not real sure why Progressives thought President Obama was the Messiah or a subsitute for Dennis Kucinich (you'll notice Dennis was unelectable). There is a way to speak truth to power. If all you can do is assign the worst possible motives to someone, that's just not particularly credible. You have to work within the system you have, step by step.

And don't bother hassling Jesse Griffen. It just makes you look weird.

Anonymous said...

Mistah Charley...STFU! Nobody gives a fuck about you being a "Firebagger" are a TROLL! There is a difference! really stepped in it this time. Number one rule of blogging....keep YOUR opinions to YOUR should NEVER try to lecture another blogger under the guise that you are trying "to help" makes you look...well the way you look now....desperate for hits to your site. And I'm sure you don't want to give that impression....right?

Anonymous said...


You really blew it didn't you? You MAY have had something worthwhile to say, but instead of simply trusting that it would carry it's own merit, you had to drag another blogger into the story? Why? Don't your posts stand on their own? Do you require Jesse's approval? Does Jesse's participation validate your position or do you stand on your own? Obviously, the answer to that is you don't have the backbone to support your own premises.

You say you aren't attacking Jesse, but I beg to differ, since you are in fact doing just that, though you may be in denial about it, it's obvious to just the handful of posters responding to your little stunt. You are publicly calling him out, on his OWN FRIGGIN' BLOGROLL and then acting like you're not. Delusional much? Desperate much? Looking for attention much? Trying to gain readers by slandering and mocking Jesse? Bad move. Thoughtless move. Stupid move.

One of the MANY reasons that Jesse is so popular and avidly followed is that he is respectful. He is honorable. He admits when he is wrong. He doesn't get into pissing matches, which is really what your post is, a high schooler's pissing match to 'prove' that you are the one in the know.

Well, Phil, what you succeeded in doing is poisoning your message, as someone above has stated, so that there is no interest in reading what you wrote, since it's based on a dishonest premise and people see right through that. You've succeeded in showing what a small man you are. You've succeeded in revealing to the world your complete lack of finesse, manners, class and social intelligence. You've broadcast your inability to engage honestly and without malice.

Future suggestion. Stick to your blog and your points of view and let other bloggers stick to theirs. You have jumped the shark on this one. But that seems to be your style, doesn't it, stir the pot...reminds me of a certain Wasilla resident that spits and slanders on the sidelines. There is no honor in that. Shame on you for taking advantage of a 'friendship' that Jesse has offered. Some one needs to slap you upside the head and remind you that it is by his GOOD GRACES that you are on his blogroll, for without that it's not likely your blog would survive for long, since it's so strife with nastiness and bad thinking. You are HURTING, DAMAGING, DESTROYING any positive support that you might have had, and you're doing it because you have such a low self esteem and negative ego that flares up when you are in need of attention. It's not the first, or second, or third time that you've shown your true face. And it's ugly.

I suspect you and Sarah are something of two peas in a pod, you on the way out too far left and her on the way out to far right. Extreme views all the same.

How about finding a positive message? How about finding a way to SUPPORT our amazing president, instead of taking pot shots and calling people who support him as an 'addiction'.

Where were YOU when the time came to speak up about Sarah and stop her corruption in Alaska? Where were YOU when she was foisted upon this country?

President Obama is so many thing you can never hope to be, which is why you can't stand him and you attack the way that you do. You will never measure up, that's apparent, so you have to find ways to justify your small minded thinking and jump on bandwagon of bashing. Jesse has our president's back and of that I am grateful. You on the other hand, I wouldn't trust for a heartbeat. You are a back stabber and a negative entity who has little to contribute unless it comes through the lense of dark thinking.

Anonymous said...

Phil, I always come here first. :) Jesse loves Obama, and that's his right. I don't happen to share his view, so I don't read those posts. I know what they're going to say, and they just annoy me.

I think some of the commenters here are over the top and in their defense of Jesse sound somewhat like the people at C4P. Just my opinion.

Carry on.


Marleycat said...

As I said previously on your blog - you and the RWNJs are two sides of the same coin - my way OR the highway. You'd rather throw the baby out with the bath water, cut off your nose to spite your face and elect Teabag Republicans/RWNJs, Christian Fundamentalists into the Presidency, the Congress, and the Supreme Court.

You know, we'd all like the issues you cite to be addressed, like yesterday - but, we also know President Obama can only do so much at a time. Never has a President had as much opposition to his agenda as President Obama - primarily because he is Black, and because of selfish political purists like you - in all likelihood the racists could very well WIN in the next election.

He has had NO support from extremists like you whose short-sighted rhetoric encouraged people to stay home or vote more Teabag Republicans into office, effectively hamstringing the President's ability to accomplish any of the very things you say need to be done. Thanks for that, Phil.

Also, although Jesse Griffen probably is not politically as far left as you are Phil, he has never once used his blog to denounce you for the extremist you are OR the fact that because of that extremism - you are trying to throw the election to the Teabag Republicans.

You owe him an apology for the grossly unfair attacks you have made and vow never to show your ass at IM again. Your behavior is akin to Sarah Palin's taking to Facebook, Twitter, and the sidelines attacking Obama with lies, innuendo, and vitriol - except you have specifically targeted Jesse and IM. Again - two sides of the same extremist coin!

It makes me wonder why you aren't at some of the other liberal blogs that are clearly Pro-Obama - why aren't you going to Politicalgates (a great liberal blog, BTW), for instance, and attacking those bloggers and followers? Why single out Jesse Griffen? What's wrong with you?

I see you finally got a few readers, here today, Phil - kind of like FOX NEWS' attack dogs, Rush Limbaugh, et al, ginning up viewership through propaganda, incendiary untrue statements, and inflammatory rhetoric. EXCEPT 99% of the comments here are in support of Jesse Griffin and IM.

I can guarantee that Jesse Griffen and almost all of his fans agree with you that the issues you have cited are very important, valid, and need to be addressed. But, we all know a Teabag Republican dominated government will not address any of those things and will wipe out any progress made in this country in the past 30+ years. We are not willing to go backwards just because we can't have the whole pie RIGHT NOW! It's the difference between being REALISTIC as opposed to FOOLISHLY NAIVE!

Have you noticed yet, Phil, that no one initiates attacks against you for your positions, or views - except when, and only then, you aggressively, unfairly attack others?

DKey said...

I totally agree with 3:05. And, as Bristol would say, you're just being an "immature hater." Sorry, Phil, you're off my toolbar. Jesse is, above all, respectful to the people on IM, and your approach to 'educating' the man who obviously knows this is a "chess game,"and "not checkers," is just sad. Haven't you ever heard that "it's easier to wear shoes than to cover the whole world with leather?" Physician heal thyself. Major FAIL. Buh-bye.

Marleycat said...

Anonymous@5:10pm - Many of the issues Phil Munger brought up are certainly valid and we'd all like to see progress on them, including Jesse Griffen/IMers.

The problem is not that Phil has valid points and that somehow Jesse has nefariously dismissed them as being unimportant (which he has not done), rather it's that Mr. Munger feels the appropriate way to point to these issues is to rabidly attack Jesse Griffen on a personal level - just because he dares to support President Obama.

Mr. Munger falsely presumes and unfairly implies that because President Obama has not addressed these issues, yet, therefore he's a "Corporatist War Monger" worse than the Repubs/Hitler,etc. - and evil! Using false logic, then he attacks Jesse Griffen because he's Pro- Obama therefore that means Jesse doesn't support the issues Phil holds dear or would not like to see the President address those issues. THAT is what is unfair - faulty logic and unfair attacks.

It is also not fair to chide both Phil Munger AND Jesse Griffen for being critical about each other's positions - since Mr. Munger is the only one launching these critical, personal attacks, now and in the past. Nobody disagrees Phil has a right to his opinions and poitical views, but he doesn't have the right to claim as fact that Jesse Griffen feels one way or another about anything just because he supports Pres. Obama. He is trying to "put words in" Jesse's mouth, so to speak. I don't agree with everything that President Obama has done. He isn't the Messiah, or the Savior, or perfect, but he is a sight better than Perry, Bachmann, Huntsman, Gingrich, Santorum, Paul, Cain, and Romney.

Anonymous said...

Blue_in_AK...I know you have to stick up for your friend Phil...because I see you Wasillians have to stick together...but on this one you are straight up WRONG!

And I've also noticed the new "concern trollish" comments referring to commenters as "acting like C4P" folks...which is of course far from the truth...which is what I'm sure you are bothered by...Phil fucked up attacking Jesse...truth with it.

Personally...this looks like one of Phil's "blogging while drunk" post...that's too bad because you usually have some good post!

Alaskan Away From Home said...

Darn it Phil - I was just coming back to your site after a long hiatus and between the MF attack over Benson and the IM attack over the Pres, I'm finally done for good. I don't take sides - I like you all - you each have something to offer.

I don't agree with any of the assumptions here made by other commenters - assumptions as to your actions are just stupid and a waste of time. Why people have to act like they know everything is beyond me, I'm as tired of that as I am of the fighting blogs.

I'm happy to just express my opinion and I know you'll just go on doing what you do, just as I now get to move along and make the choice of not including your negativity in any part of any of my days from now on.

Love your garden, your family including Strider, your lake, your music. Wish these were enough sustenance for me not to pass the rest of it by, but they aren't even as lovely as they are.

I don't mind if you disagree or feel differently - but you lose me over attacking Jeanne & Gryphen for their differences. By now, I've learned to forgive even when I don't forget and find that I'm leaving people behind who can't do that - life is too short. Best to your wife & Strider (hope he's still here) and yourself, too. Bye!

Alaskan Away From Home said...

Posters - your comments about "concern trolls" and "being just like Sarah Palin" "haters" are tiresome, boring and have been used so much they have lost all meaning.

If the smarts happen to run by, grab them, stick them in your brain and come up with some creative & individual ways to express the same feelings.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 12:25: Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not a Wasillan. I'm an Anchorageite, through and through, and have been since 1975. I read all these blogs, I know Phil and Jeanne and Linda and Shannyn and I've met Jesse on more than one occasion. I'm not taking sides here, only saying that I tend to agree with Phil more often than I agree with Jesse. That's all.

This is Phil's blog, and he knows all of these bloggers, as well. He can say whatever he wants on his blog, and I'm sure he and the others will have lively discussions over all of this. Commenters are taking this too personally -- but that's your right, too.


Mona said...

You lose credibility with posts like this.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Phil. Jesse's posts are so skewed about Obama I almost wonder if they're dating. It's pathetic. And, it's brought me to the point where I seriously doubt anything he has to say regarding the Ice Queen. I now believe he'll say anything to drive more traffic to make more profitable page views. But, hey, that's cool; it's his blog, but as far as i'm concerned his credibility has taken a big hit...just saying.

Dinty said...

Mr Munger,

With regard to the Keystone XL pipeline I'm in agreement with you, it's a bad idea. I feel the same about our continued addiction to fossil fuels with little to no research and investment (compared to oil subsidies) going to alternative, renewable energy.

I can't speak for Gryphen, but I can say that it's OK if the President and I don't agree on everything. I can still support him with a clear conscience knowing that I am assessing his performance critically.

With regard to your second point concerning drone strikes in Pakistan (we also do so in Yemen, Somalia and a couple of other places) your numbers are wrong.

You state: "CIA drones, as part of Obama's greatly increased automated killing machine, have murdered almost as many Pakistani civilians as Americans died in the World Trade Center disasters" - I am assuming you are referring to the number given afterward of "2,347 and 2,956 PEOPLE".

That number is mixed in with the 175 children to mislead - it doesn't say "2,347 and 2,956 innocent people" does it? In fact the number of civilians in the report cited is actually "392-781", but that's not as sensational.

That means between 1500-2000 of the number you cited as being nearly as many victims of the World Trade Center attacks were, in fact enemy combatants.

A single civilian death, especially a child is more than anyone wants, but to expect that level of accuracy is naive.

The drones' accuracy compared to dumb and smart bombing in Iraq where the estimates of civilian deaths range between 100,000-1,000,000 put into perspective that as terrible as those civilian casualty numbers are, they are quite good comparatively.

The only way to improve the civilian death rate is to not be there in the first place, which is on the President's agenda.

Chella said...

I have been a reader of IM for quite a while now. Just stumbled upon Progressive Alaska. I come from blue blooded ancestry on both sides of my family, and on each side, my families wealth, property (castle, on my Irish side), and political/societal influence were taken from them by occupying countries. So they came to new York with nothing, and began to rebuild. In turn, I am as progressive as they come. And very opposed to hatred. Which is why I am so taken aback by the response to some of these commenters. This is America. We ALL have the right to our opinions, but to be filled with such anger and animosity in order to defend another blogger seems useless. Name calling and horrid words have no place is a civil discussion.

Anonymous said...

This is fucking great entertainment

A Valley Conservative

Anonymous said...

"I get lambasted there, with responders to my comments seldom actually addressing issues that I've brought up."

You never present issues, Munger. There's nothing to respond to. You do a propagandized presentation of serious issues coated with a blanket of what you no doubt see as clever witty repartee, but is just confusing mean spin. It's hard to find the rationale underneath the ugly.
Frankly, historically I read your stuff over and over, trying to find the substance that I thought must be there somewhere. Because I admired and respected you. I don't anymore. It all reads the same. It's all from the same source. There's no substantive information or a rationale for your perspective that I can find and share. It's not instructional or insightful - just rambling vindictive nonsense: superior, arrogant, snotty, entrenched.

"the president's...policy of now killing American teenagers abroad with no attempt at any form of justice."

Case in point. What the hell does that mean?
How is that in any way productive or analytic? How does that articulate a legitimate concern?